God SWORE an oath to save ALL of mankind!

[Israel]

Matthew 5:33-37

33Again, ye have heard that it hath been said by them of old time, Thou shalt not forswear thyself, but shalt perform unto the Lord thine oaths:

34But I say unto you, Swear not at all; neither by heaven; for it is God's throne:

35Nor by the earth; for it is his footstool: neither by Jerusalem; for it is the city of the great King.

36Neither shalt thou swear by thy head, because thou canst not make one hair white or black.

37But let your communication be, Yea, yea; Nay, nay: for whatsoever is more than these cometh of evil.


We are told not to make an oath as EVERYTHING belongs to God. And as we ALL on this site can agree on is that God holds His word above EVERYTHING. And what did He do with it?


Isaiah 45:22-23

22Look unto me, and be ye saved, all the ends of the earth: for I am God, and there is none else.

23I have sworn by myself, the word is gone out of my mouth in righteousness, and shall not return, That unto me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear.

God sworn by Himself because there is NONE greater THAT EVERY KNEE WILL BOW AND EVERY TONGUE WILL CONFESS!

Now if God swore this, then surely He is able to perform it, I mean after all, EVERYTHING is His!

But how do you all see this? Are we all bowing and confessing lovingly or is this something else?

[Unclaimed Treasure]

Every knee shall bow. But that does not mean that the confession that follows will be one of saving faith. A person who jumps off the Golden Gate bridge has to "confess" that gravity is an unbreakable law of nature...but the confession will not save him from death. Or when a conquering force overwhelms a country, the conquered leaders will "bow" to their captors and even "confess" the military superiority of their conquerors, but that does not mean that their hearts have been changed.


BTW, I just realized where this was posted. Universalism does not fall under the forum's statement of faith, therefore this topic is not permitted in this subforum.

[Israel]

Every knee shall bow. But that does not mean that the confession that follows will be one of saving faith. A person who jumps off the Golden Gate bridge has to "confess" that gravity is an unbreakable law of nature...but the confession will not save him from death. Or when a conquering force overwhelms a country, the conquered leaders will "bow" to their captors and even "confess" the military superiority of their conquerors, but that does not mean that their hearts have been changed.


BTW, I just realized where this was posted. Universalism does not fall under the forum's statement of faith, therefore this topic is not permitted in this subforum.

If every knee bows to the GLORY of God, this is then evident that it is not forced. No man can say that Jesus is Lord but by the Holy Spirit.

Matthew 25:34-40

34Then shall the King say unto them on his right hand, Come, ye blessed of my Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world:

35For I was an hungred, and ye gave me meat: I was thirsty, and ye gave me drink: I was a stranger, and ye took me in:

36Naked, and ye clothed me: I was sick, and ye visited me: I was in prison, and ye came unto me.

37Then shall the righteous answer him, saying, Lord, when saw we thee an hungred, and fed thee? or thirsty, and gave thee drink?

38When saw we thee a stranger, and took thee in? or naked, and clothed thee?

39Or when saw we thee sick, or in prison, and came unto thee?

40And the King shall answer and say unto them, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye have done it unto one of the least of these my brethren, ye have done it unto me.

THIS is how confession is made.

I am but a man and do not have much. But with all I have (through my gains of obeying the law), I have given ALL I have to the to the poor (those who by righteousness of the law have little). I give to the poor. I feed the hungry. I visit them in prison.

The man who jumped or fell to his death is as certain as the man who quietly dies in his sleep. Death is certain for us all!

Romans 7:1-7

1Know ye not, brethren, (for I speak to them that know the law,) how that the law hath dominion over a man as long as he liveth?

2For the woman which hath an husband is bound by the law to her husband so long as he liveth; but if the husband be dead, she is loosed from the law of her husband.

3So then if, while her husband liveth, she be married to another man, she shall be called an adulteress: but if her husband be dead, she is free from that law; so that she is no adulteress, though she be married to another man.

4Wherefore, my brethren, ye also are become dead to the law by the body of Christ; that ye should be married to another, even to him who is raised from the dead, that we should bring forth fruit unto God.

[RoyS]

If every knee bows to the GLORY of God, this is then evident that it is not forced. No man can say that Jesus is Lord but by the Holy Spirit.

Hogwash. Satan knows and acknowledges that Jesus is Lord. Does he have the Holy Spirit?

[Benjie]

If every knee bows to the GLORY of God, this is then evident that it is not forced. No man can say that Jesus is Lord but by the Holy Spirit.

You wouldn't happen to have any scriptural support for that, would you?

I didn't think so . . .

[Israel]

Hogwash. Satan knows and acknowledges that Jesus is Lord. Does he have the Holy Spirit?

1 Corinthians 12:3

3Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Matthew 15:5-9

5But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;

6And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.

7Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,

8This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

9But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

1 Corinthians 12:3

3Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.

Matthew 15:5-9

5But ye say, Whosoever shall say to his father or his mother, It is a gift, by whatsoever thou mightest be profited by me;

6And honour not his father or his mother, he shall be free. Thus have ye made the commandment of God of none effect by your tradition.

7Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,

8This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

9But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

[Alex Smith]

Universalism does not fall under the forum's statement of faith

In order to post in the Christian discussion section, a person must be in agreement with the statement of faith (SoF).

Statement of Faith

CWS STATEMENT of FAITH:

* The Holy Scriptures, in its original form, is the inerrant Word of God.

* There is only one God. He exists as and reveals Himself to man as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, in what is commonly called "the Trinity".

* Man is separated from God due to sin.

* God's Son, Jesus Christ, was born of the virgin Mary, died on the cross for man's sins, and rose again on the third day.

* Man can only be saved by repenting of sin, and by faith, receiving Jesus Christ as his or her Lord and Savior. This salvation is provided by the grace of God. Man cannot be saved through his own efforts or works.

The SOF is not meant to determine a person's Christianity, but is rather a simple measuring stick to identify some key beliefs for the purpose of fellowship.

I was just wondering which part of this SOF (that I uphold) is incompatible with Christian Universalism (I assume that's what Israel is raising here...)?

[RoyS]

I was just wondering which part of this SOF (that I uphold) is incompatible with Christian Universalism (I assume that's what Israel is raising here...)?

* Man can only be saved by repenting of sin, and by faith, receiving Jesus Christ as his or her Lord and Savior. This salvation is provided by the grace of God. Man cannot be saved through his own efforts or works.

If someone does not repent, and accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, they are not saved. Not all people will be saved, as the Universalists believe.

[Alex Smith]

If someone does not repent, and accept Jesus Christ as Lord and Savior, they are not saved.

I totally agree, and as far as I know, that's what Christian Universalists believe. I see nothing in the SOF, or the Bible, that restricts repentance to one's life on earth... even the commonly quoted Heb 9:27 only establishes that we will die & face Judgement (things CUs affirm).

And just as it is appointed for man to die once, and after that comes judgment,

Whilst the New Testament emphasis is on repenting & believing now, the possibility of postmortem repentance (& salvation) is orthodox. As far as I can tell most of the Church Fathers, notably Gregory of Nyssa (honoured with the title of "Father of the Fathers" at the 7th ecumenical council), thought it would happend to at least some degree. Even Augustine (in City of God) seems to be allowing for a few to repent postmortem. Also Augustine noted it was common belief in the early church.

So it's not surprising that billions of Catholic & Eastern Orthodox (& even some Protestants) have (& still do) hoped & prayed for it. Possibly of more interest to us Evangelicals is that C.S. Lewis believed some people would (e.g. The Great Divorce, where the man with the lizard of Lust on his shoulder was saved, and the MacD character who assures Lewis that the woman frightened by the unicorns may yet be saved, as he has seen it happen before).

Now you might be wondering why these Christians believe/believed in the possibility of postmortem repentance (& salvation). Well historically (I'm not saying I believe these are watertight) passages like 1Cor 3:15, 1Pet 3:19, Eph 4:8-9, Isa 25, Matt, 1Cor 15:28 (Gregory of Nyssa), Mat 12:32 (Augustine) have been used, as has the concept that Jesus' postmortem triumph over & out of Hell (admittedly this is a particularly tricky one as it depends on whether Jesus was raised from the dead by the Father, or rose from the dead by His own power, or both!). I should add that interpreting passages like

“Turn to me and be saved, all the ends of the earth! For I am God, and there is no other. By myself I have sworn; from my mouth has gone out in righteousness a word that shall not return:

‘To me every knee shall bow, every tongue shall swear allegiance.’

as implying everyone will one day be in allegiance with God, implicitly suggests postmortem repentance (& salvation) must occur before this prophesy can be fulfilled.

Does Christ deserve to have everyone freely, lovingly, worshiping Him? That is, with 100% of mind, body & spirit.

[Titus]

Hebrews 4:
4 Therefore, since the promise of entering his rest still stands, let us be careful that none of you be found to have fallen short of it. ² For we also have had the good news proclaimed to us, just as they did; but the message they heard was of no value to them, because they did not share the faith of those who obeyed. ³ Now we who have believed enter that rest, just as God has said,

“So I declared on oath in my anger,
‘They shall never enter my rest.’”


And yet his works have been finished since the creation of the world. ⁴ For somewhere he has spoken about the seventh day in these words: “On the seventh day God rested from all his works.” ⁵ And again in the passage above he says, “They shall never enter my rest.”