Christian Homosexuality

[RoyS]

Benjie,
This is a tough situation. Can a Christian be gay? Yes. Should they act on their desires? No. In the same way that heterosexuals should abstain from lustful desires outside of marriage, gays should not engage in acts which the Lord deems abominable. Personally, I don't think anyone who claims Christ's name can engage in homosexuality, adultery, fornication, thievery, etc., etc..

[Titus]

This article has some interesting things to say about it.

While I agree with those who say that homosexuality is a terrible sin (Lev. 18:22, 20:13 Rom. 1:27; 1 Cor. 6:6; 1 Tim. 1:10), I do not believe it is one that is outside the realm of a believer’s carnality. Neither do I believe that if one practices in homosexuality their entire life that they are necessarily excluded from the Kingdom of God. I hope that people do not misunderstand my purpose here. I, in no way endorse homosexual behavior or seek to relativise its abominable standing before the Lord. But I do think that we who are not tempted in such a way often fail to see the seriousness of the struggle that people go through who engage in this sin.
Sexual sin and temptation is part of everyone’s life. We are born with a drive toward fulfillment of this God-given part of our humanity. Some will deny this drive because of God’s calling in their lives (e.g. singleness). Yet sin has corrupted this drive and we are all born infected with sin. Because of upbringing, genetics, cultural influences, and other factors, people will experience this corruption to greater and lesser degrees.

Before you pass judgment on the whole article based on this passage, read the whole thing.

[dave]

Benjie,
This is a tough situation. Can a Christian be gay? Yes. Should they act on their desires? No. In the same way that heterosexuals should abstain from lustful desires outside of marriage, gays should not engage in acts which the Lord deems abominable.

I agree here with the portion quoted.

Yes, a "gay" person can be a Christian. But there needs to be a clear distinction made. Some people have same-sex-attractions. In this way they might be considered (or consider themselves) "gay". Some of thsoe with a same-sex-attraction, however, choose not to act on it...while some do. So, if "gay" is the word we use, then we need to understand what "gay" is. Since this can depend on thousands of differeing opinions...I have found that it is better to discuss "same-sex-attraction" and "homosexual activity" (engaging in it).

I think it could be debated that a person with a same-sex-attraction can't do much about it, without some serious prayer, counseling, help, etc... So, it can be reasoned that, although God does not make a person to be "gay" (He made them man and woman...Adam and Eve) He still loves those who have these disordered attractions and we should love them as well. Further, just because a person has a same-sex-attraction it does not make them a bad person...they (at least those I know of) did not choose to have that. The sin is not in the same-sex-attraction, it is in choosing to act on it (engaging in an act).

People with same-sex-attractions are called to a life of chastity, the same as the rest of us. So, if we are in a position to correct a brother, sister, friend, neighbor, then we should correct them in a loving way and encourage them to live a life pleasing to God. This may involve bearing a heavy burden on their part, but our Lord has told us that life will not be easy (...pick up your cross and follow Me...).

[other one]

Benjie, there are many many people who proclaim to be Christians who really are those who just asked Jesus into their hearts but don't really follow what he has told us to do (and not to do) and in the end will be among those who will be rejected because they practice iniquity.

Matt 7:22-23

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
KJV

I have known several very nice and caring homosexuals in my 65 years, but they are according to scripture in great spiritual danger. Problem is that the way to help them is not to shun them, though I could never be real friends with any of them. but we should not cast them totally out of our lives, though we should let it be known that their lifestyle is outside our realm of acceptability. We should aways be available to let the Spirit use us to make them understand.
I hope that makes some kind of sense....

[Philthy]

This is kind of where I am headed. Can a person claim to be gay and also truly claim Christ? Are your family members engaging in the gay lifestyle? If so, I can't see how they can be Christians. I'm still working this out myself, so I plan on using this thread to think things through.

The Christian life is a little messier than we like to admit. I don't think it is useful to attempt to judge someone with a thought such as "Is this person truly Christian?" It's far better, I think, to simply look at their actions and judge the act rather than the one acting. Acting on a lustful attraction is a sin whether it is homosexual or heterosexual. If we start doubting whether someone can be a Christian merely because they sin, then we will become a very small group! Contrition/repentance is a wonderful thing that avails us of God's restoring grace and we should be honest with those living in sin that we are concerned for them. The problem is that most of us are sinners as well and it becomes a case of the pot calling the kettle black! If we are truly concerned about someones eternal destiny we should express that to them in the most loving way and let them know that we are praying for them...

[Philthy]

Benjie,
This is a tough situation. Can a Christian be gay? Yes. Should they act on their desires? No. In the same way that heterosexuals should abstain from lustful desires outside of marriage, gays should not engage in acts which the Lord deems abominable.

My fingers are hav in g trou ble typin g this , b ut I agree with you 100%!

Personally, I don't think anyone who claims Christ's name can engage in homosexuality, adultery, fornication, thievery, etc., etc..

I wish I knew this to be true, but so much of the NT seems to warn Christians of the dangers of these temptations that I think we should all remain vigilent...1Peter 5:8 Be sober, be vigilant; because your adversary the devil walks about like a roaring lion, seeking whom he may devour.

[Benjie]

Yes, they are both in relationships and like you, I have wondered how they can be Christians and live in this way. Since you and I disagree on eternal security, you may disagree with my way of thinking on this, but, I knw they were both raised in the church and have both made public professions. If their profession was genuine, then I view them as being in a prodigal state. By looking at their current lifestyle we only see a snapshot taken from their life when you view it as a whole. I hold on to the hope that their faith is genuine, and that they will one day be convicted of their sin and repent. If they do not, ever, then I can only conclude that their faith was not genuine. In the meantime, they are family and I love them as such, and love their "partners" as such. I can't see their hearts; only God can. Had they never made professions of faith prior to engaging in this lifestyle, my thinking might be different.

I won't get into an ES debate with you here (another time, perhaps?), but this is one of the dangers that I see with ES: some could look at this particular situation and say that since they made a profession at one time, they are saved for all time, and therefore their current actions have no bearing on their salvation. I disagree. I think you would as well, but that is a rabbit trail we need not journey today. This was just a thought.

One justification that I have heard, as of late, that has given me pause is the thought of a homosexual couple in a committed relationship. In engaging in debates with pro-homosexual people, they have brought up the possibility of it being permitted in the context of a committed relationship, similar to heterosexual marriage. Personally, I just can't get past the myriad scripture that call that an abomination. Thoughts?

We know that David committed grave sins, and he reaped serious consequences. His whole family was a mess and that was brought on because of his sin.
Abraham's sin brought forth the birth of a false religion that plagues his seed even today.

If they are christians there will be serious consequences to their actions. They will never know peace until they make things right, and even then there may be lingering consequences that they will have to face.

So true. I have to wonder how they sleep at night. I know what it was like when I voluntarily separated myself from Him by committing willful sin and I had a hard go of it.

Till then, all I can do is love them and show them Jesus. We know that the "you're a sinner and you're bound for hell if you don't change!" approach rarely works.

Absolutely. I admit that it's difficult to love one of them, but that is due to the issues surrounding his coming out. Not good stuff for my family. But we must still love the person despite the gravity of their sin. After all, Jesus did.

I may be full of beans, but this is where I am with it.

I'm right there with you. :/

[Benjie]

Benjie,
This is a tough situation. Can a Christian be gay? Yes. Should they act on their desires? No. In the same way that heterosexuals should abstain from lustful desires outside of marriage, gays should not engage in acts which the Lord deems abominable. Personally, I don't think anyone who claims Christ's name can engage in homosexuality, adultery, fornication, thievery, etc., etc..

I believe that they can, but that it puts a barrier between them and God. This is where my opinion of ES comes into play, and I really don't want to head down that trail here, but there seems to be a line that is crossed somewhere. Christians can behave in sinful ways, but they shouldn't. As Titus said, David sinned and he reaped the whirlwind because of it - but he repented of his sin. I believe that a Christian can find themselves in a sinful lifestyle, and still be - well, saved, for lack of better term. However, when the Spirit convicts them, either through individual revelation or single/group intervention (and He always will), and they don't repent, then they are done.

Hmmm. . . Perhaps this is tied deeper into by ES beliefs than I thought. If so, Titus, I fully understand if you choose not to continue in this discussion. I don't want to fight with you. Discuss, yes. Fight, no. Lol! I promise not to argue about ES in this thread.

[Titus]

One justification that I have heard, as of late, that has given me pause is the thought of a homosexual couple in a committed relationship. In engaging in debates with pro-homosexual people, they have brought up the possibility of it being permitted in the context of a committed relationship, similar to heterosexual marriage. Personally, I just can't get past the myriad scripture that call that an abomination. Thoughts?

Yeah, like being in a loving committed relationship somehow makes it okay. It doesn't make it okay for peole of the same sex to live together out of wedlock, even though they may be in a loving committed relationship.
I guess my thing is, I can't read a heart. Only God can. I know what God's word says, but I also know that God gives us examples in his word of people who committed grave sins who were and remained to be His children. Moses committed murder. David - murder and adultery. Peter denied Jesus.
It's not up to us to judge them. That is not to say that we condone or otherwise endorse that relationship. No it's clear what the Bible calls it, and it ain't pretty, but honestly, I tink the christian community owes the gay community an apology, because instead of loving them like Jesus, we stand on street corners with signs that say God hates fags. Yeah I know, Westboro is a fringe group, and very few christians actually do that, but how many christians secretly say, "got that right!"? I just feel like they are a community that collectively we have failed just because we find their sin so distasteful.

[Benjie]

I agree here with the portion quoted.

Yes, a "gay" person can be a Christian. But there needs to be a clear distinction made. Some people have same-sex-attractions. In this way they might be considered (or consider themselves) "gay". Some of thsoe with a same-sex-attraction, however, choose not to act on it...while some do. So, if "gay" is the word we use, then we need to understand what "gay" is. Since this can depend on thousands of differeing opinions...I have found that it is better to discuss "same-sex-attraction" and "homosexual activity" (engaging in it).

I think it could be debated that a person with a same-sex-attraction can't do much about it, without some serious prayer, counseling, help, etc... So, it can be reasoned that, although God does not make a person to be "gay" (He made them man and woman...Adam and Eve) He still loves those who have these disordered attractions and we should love them as well. Further, just because a person has a same-sex-attraction it does not make them a bad person...they (at least those I know of) did not choose to have that. The sin is not in the same-sex-attraction, it is in choosing to act on it (engaging in an act).

People with same-sex-attractions are called to a life of chastity, the same as the rest of us. So, if we are in a position to correct a brother, sister, friend, neighbor, then we should correct them in a loving way and encourage them to live a life pleasing to God. This may involve bearing a heavy burden on their part, but our Lord has told us that life will not be easy (...pick up your cross and follow Me...).

There is a tremendous book called 'Homosexuality and the Christian' written by Stephen Yarhouse (I think that's his name). It is a superb read in my opinion, and this is one of the main points that he covers. SSA(same-sex attraction) is different from HL(Homosexual lifestyle). I agree, wholeheartedly. We may need to use those distinctions to really delve into this discussion.