A Question of Sinlessness

[historyb]

Think about the example of Adam again before the fall. There was no death working in his body until the knowledge of good and evil. The use of the word fallen implies that Jesus knew both good and evil doesn't it?

If Jesus was never disobedient then he didn't know any sin until the cross. And it wasn't even his iniquity he was bearing. Isaiah 53 says the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all. So he took our sin so that we can have his righteousness. That means the cross is an exchange.

He did know good and evil, He had the same body we have. As I said your getting dangerously close to the very old heresy of Docetism. Christ came to be like us in every way with the exception He never sinned. He had a corruptible human body which grew and decayed

[dave]

It's funny that you say that you don't force your own interpretations into scripture, yet almost the entirety of this post of yours is doing exactly that.

Or scripture itself, so it would seem.

Complete fabrication. Can you prove that using scripture?

Ahh, so the Catholic church rewrites the definition of sin, now? Wow. If I don't intend to kill someone, is it a sin if I do? (the answer here is obviously yes)

Ahh, so a child that dies of SIDS is sinless? Jesus wasn't the only sinless one to die? God really doesn't know what He's doing, does He?

Um, no. You see, read the entirety of the verse: 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
It is impossible for Jesus to fall short of the glory of God when He IS God.

Additionally, Jesus was born of flesh, yes, but His Father was not man. There was a reason for that. All of mankind is born in sin because sin is passed down from the father. Jesus' Father was not man.

Again, utter and complete fabrication. All have sinned because we are born into sin.

There is so much wrong with this paragraph that I hardly know where to start.

Adam and Eve were in a world without sin. There was no sin. Nowhere. At all. Mary was born after the fall, once sin had entered the world. Through Adam. And passed down to every child of his from that point on. Including her.
Yes, most of the angels have never sinned. Point being? They are not on Earth. They are not born. They are not human.
The entirety of your argument is so futile, and so easily refuted that I find it hard to believe that it has persisted for so long. I guess it's true that if you tell a lie enough times, people will believe it.

You can stick with your modern opinions if you wish. I'm going to stick with the early Christians who taught the Sacred Tradition as passed down from the Apostles:
http://www.catholic.com/tracts/mary-full-of-grace
http://www.catholic.com/tracts/mary-ever-virgin
http://www.catholic.com/tracts/mary-mother-of-god
http://www.catholic.com/tracts/immac...and-assumption

If you can find 4 Christian Fathers from the first 5 centuries that disagree with ones I provided...I'd be willing to reconsider.

[Benjie]

If you can find 4 Christian Fathers from the first 5 centuries that disagree with ones I provided...I'd be willing to reconsider.

Read scripture. It disagrees completely.

[2KnowHim]

Think about the example of Adam again before the fall. There was no death working in his body until the knowledge of good and evil. The use of the word fallen implies that Jesus knew both good and evil doesn't it?

If Jesus was never disobedient then he didn't know any sin until the cross. And it wasn't even his iniquity he was bearing. Isaiah 53 says the Lord has laid on him the iniquity of us all. So he took our sin so that we can have his righteousness. That means the cross is an exchange.

That is Covenant, Life for Life. That's also why He cried "Father, Father why has thou forsaken me. It was our sin He was experiencing when He said that.

[Aquila]

He did know good and evil, He had the same body we have. As I said your getting dangerously close to the very old heresy of Docetism. Christ came to be like us in every way with the exception He never sinned. He had a corruptible human body which grew and decayed

hb,
First off, the knowldge of good and evil was the original sin. So for you to say that Jesus knew good and evil and never sinned is a contradiction. Of course he never sinned and he did not know good and evil. Remember Jesus said that if your eye is single your whole body will be full of light. If Jesus knew evil his eye wouldn't have been single and there would have been darkness within him. We know that is not true!

Also consider this-

Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? But he spake of the temple of his body.
(Joh 2:19-21 KJV)


Jesus' body was the temple. God didn't dwell in Herod's temple, of course. I think we all agree on that. So what we say about Jesus' human body we also say about God's temple.

[2KnowHim]

Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Isa 7:15 Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.
Isa 7:16 For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.



Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

[Aquila]

Isa 7:14 Therefore the Lord himself shall give you a sign; Behold, a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son, and shall call his name Immanuel.
Isa 7:15 Butter and honey shall he eat, that he may know to refuse the evil, and choose the good.
Isa 7:16 For before the child shall know to refuse the evil, and choose the good, the land that thou abhorrest shall be forsaken of both her kings.



Gen 3:22 And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

Feel free to comment on that, I'm interested to hear it.

[2KnowHim]

Feel free to comment on that, I'm interested to hear it.

I'm just saying of course He knew good and evil, remember it was Adam, that is called a figure of Him that was to come.
Jesus had to know good and evil, but that does not mean that darkness was within Him, if He didn't know it, then how could
He discern between the two?

God knows good and evil, we know good and evil, but that doesn't mean that darkness is within, it just gives us discernment.
After all He was seen in the Temple at the age of 12 teaching the teachers.

[2KnowHim]

Can you imagine the "Quick" understanding Jesus must have had, when we consider the fact that He was not born with a carnal nature, but took it upon Himself for us?

[Titus]

The knowledge of good and evil was not original sin. Disobeying God was the original sin.

hb,
First off, the knowldge of good and evil was the original sin. So for you to say that Jesus knew good and evil and never sinned is a contradiction. Of course he never sinned and he did not know good and evil. Remember Jesus said that if your eye is single your whole body will be full of light. If Jesus knew evil his eye wouldn't have been single and there would have been darkness within him. We know that is not true!

Also consider this-

Jesus answered and said unto them, Destroy this temple, and in three days I will raise it up. Then said the Jews, Forty and six years was this temple in building, and wilt thou rear it up in three days? But he spake of the temple of his body.
(Joh 2:19-21 KJV)


Jesus' body was the temple. God didn't dwell in Herod's temple, of course. I think we all agree on that. So what we say about Jesus' human body we also say about God's temple.