He tasted Death for All Mankind

[Titus]

The greek word for sleep in v14, koimao, is also translated to die. What the verse says in effect is if we believe that Jesus died and rose again( this introduces the parallel of the resurrection of Jesus to the resurrection of believers) even so them also which sleep in Jesus (believers who have hallen asleep, who have died) will God bring with Him. (meaning God will resurrect them in the same manner.) In verse 16 we get the chronological order. Those who have died in Christ will rise first, and the remaining living believers will be caught up to meet them in the air.

[2KnowHim]

The greek word for sleep in v14, koimao, is also translated to die. What the verse says in effect is if we believe that Jesus died and rose again( this introduces the parallel of the resurrection of Jesus to the resurrection of believers) even so them also which sleep in Jesus (believers who have hallen asleep, who have died) will God bring with Him. (meaning God will resurrect them in the same manner.) In verse 16 we get the chronological order. Those who have died in Christ will rise first, and the remaining living believers will be caught up to meet them in the air.

Asleep in vs. 14 is a totally different word, than vs. 16

The asleep in 14, is a slumbering to death, or to put to sleep (involuntary).
the dead, in 16, is dead persons, in the grave, apart from the personality they once had.

sleep in Jesus, Koimao
Dead in Christ, Nekros

It is not the same thing, and it is not the same word for dead. Mat.22:31 uses this word as in vs. 16
.....He is the God of the Living.

[2KnowHim]

Mat 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
Mat 22:30 For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.
Mat 22:31 But as touching the resurrection of the dead, "Nekros" have ye not read that which was spoken unto you by God, saying,
Mat 22:32 I am the God of Abraham, and the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.

Why these 3,?..... Covenant Relationship, They have been Crucified with Christ, nevertheless they Live, yet not them, (apart from the personalities they once had) But Christ Lives.

Sleeping in Jesus, is those who have never come to discerning The Lord's body. They are sick, weak, and some even die. (koimao) These have not found His Life, yet they profess to "Know" Him, they have never came into Covenant Relationship with Him, Covenant is an Exchange of, LIFE FOR LIFE.

And this is where most of The "so called" church is today. And they are dying. Their still at the foot of the Cross, looking upon the man, "Jesus" They have yet to see Him, as The Christ, the Risen Saviour, in His Glory.

Again I say there is a difference, Between "Sleep" in Jesus, and "Dead" in Christ.

[Titus]

I know it's a different word, but as I pointed out prebiously, one of the definitions of koimao is "to die". You don't have to take my word for it. You can look it up. The truth will set you free.[Flee and run away are different words but they mean the same thing. There are many totally different words that mean the same thing.QUOTE=2KnowHim;3469]Asleep in vs. 14 is a totally different word, than vs. 16

The asleep in 14, is a slumbering to death, or to put to sleep (involuntary).
the dead, in 16, is dead persons, in the grave, apart from the personality they once had.

sleep in Jesus, Koimao
Dead in Christ, Nekros

It is not the same thing, and it is not the same word for dead. Mat.22:31 uses this word as in vs. 16
.....He is the God of the Living.[/QUOTE]

[Aquila]

So you believe that those who "sleep in Jesus" are those that have died and went to Heaven,
And those that are "dead in Christ' are those still upon the earth.

Is that how you see 1Th.4:11-16?

Sleep is used as a metaphor for death. Paul is encouraging his breathren not to sorrow about the death of their loved ones who have gone to be with the Lord. He is saying belivers aren't like those who have no hope.

The dead in Christ shall rise first. The Lord brings them with him at his coming. Those that are alive and remain on the earth shall not precede them in resurrection.

[2KnowHim]

I give up, trying to talk to ya'll is impossible.

Titus, you say you know there is a difference in vs 14 and 16 (dead), but turn right around and describe them as the same thing.

Aquila, I know sleep is used as a metaphor for death, but you have still yet to understand that it "is not" the same kind of death as in vs. 16.

Those that have fallen asleep in Jesus, is NO different from those that are without, (the ungodly, those that have not acknowledged Him) both groups "perished" they as the ones who fell asleep, never made it passed the gate. That is what Paul is saying, That God will through Christ bring them with Him. That is why Jesus was crucified outside the Gate, even for those, that, MISSED the Mark. Including the ones you now deem as sinners or without.
He would not have you be ignorant of this one thing, that's why we are to walk honestly towards those that are without. Christ also suffered for them as well, don't you get this?

Heb 13:11 For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp.
Heb 13:12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.


You're both only acknowledging the saints, but what of the ones without? Neither of you are seeing them in this.
1Pe 4:17 For the time is come that judgment must begin at the house of God: and if it first begin at us, what shall the end be of them that obey not the gospel of God?
1Pe 4:18 And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?

[Titus]

I give up, trying to talk to ya'll is impossible.

HA! The feeling's mutual.

Titus, you say you know there is a difference in vs 14 and 16 (dead), but turn right around and describe them as the same thing.

I said I know it's a different word, but used to mean the same thing. I even used an illustartion to show you. Why don't you get it? Please re-read post # 11 and meditate on it.

[/QUOTE]

[2KnowHim]

HA! The feeling's mutual.

I said I know it's a different word, but used to mean the same thing. I even used an illustartion to show you. Why don't you get it? Please re-read post # 11 and meditate on it.

[/QUOTE]


And I'm trying to tell you that "They do NOT mean the same Thing".

You think death is all the same thing, and it is NOT.

[Aquila]

2KH, Well again, those that have fallen asleep in Jesus are safe in him, they have gone on to be with the Lord and then those without are outside of Christ.

But then you take the word 'without' or 'outside' and fly over to the book of Hebrews to try and make a comparison. It's kinda amusing to see how you think, or how you have been taught to think.

Jesus suffered outside the gate because he was establishing a new covenant, not suffering under the old. He wasn't just another prophet and his city isn't in the earth. Those in Christ don't have a holy city here.

Heb 13:11 For the bodies of those beasts, whose blood is brought into the sanctuary by the high priest for sin, are burned without the camp.
Heb 13:12 Wherefore Jesus also, that he might sanctify the people with his own blood, suffered without the gate.

'The people.' It's the sprinkling of the precious blood of Christ on the heart of those that have received him that brings the forgiveness of sin. The blood wasn't burned outside the camp, only the body of the animal sacrifice. The blood sanctified the people. In the tabernacle teachings of the OT the people were not the Gentiles. The Gentiles were the uncircumcised.

[Israel]

2KH, Well again, those that have fallen asleep in Jesus are safe in him, they have gone on to be with the Lord and then those without are outside of Christ.

But then you take the word 'without' or 'outside' and fly over to the book of Hebrews to try and make a comparison. It's kinda amusing to see how you think, or how you have been taught to think.

Jesus suffered outside the gate because he was establishing a new covenant, not suffering under the old. He wasn't just another prophet and his city isn't in the earth. Those in Christ don't have a holy city here.



'The people.' It's the sprinkling of the precious blood of Christ on the heart of those that have received him that brings the forgiveness of sin. The blood wasn't burned outside the camp, only the body of the animal sacrifice. The blood sanctified the people. In the tabernacle teachings of the OT the people were not the Gentiles. The Gentiles were the uncircumcised.

2 Timothy 2:19-20

19 Nevertheless the foundation of God standeth sure, having this seal, The Lord knoweth them that are his. And, let every one that nameth the name of Christ depart from iniquity.

20 But in a great house there are not only vessels of gold and of silver, but also of wood and of earth; and some to honour, and some to dishonour.

Hebrews 9:17-22

6 For where a testament is, there must also of necessity be the death of the testator.

17 For a testament is of force after men are dead: otherwise it is of no strength at all while the testator liveth.

18 Whereupon neither the first testament was dedicated without blood.

19 For when Moses had spoken every precept to all the people according to the law, he took the blood of calves and of goats, with water, and scarlet wool, and hyssop, and sprinkled both the book, and all the people,

20 Saying, This is the blood of the testament which God hath enjoined unto you.

21 Moreover he sprinkled with blood both the tabernacle, and all the vessels of the ministry.

22 And almost all things are by the law purged with blood; and without shedding of blood is no remission.

Hebrews 12:3-4


3 For consider him that endured such contradiction of sinners against himself, lest ye be wearied and faint in your minds.

4 Ye have not yet resisted unto blood, striving against sin.