Ex-skeptic convinced AGW is real

[RoyS]

I'm not arguing semantics.Everything that happens is allowed by God. Not everything that happens is His will. If it was this would be a perfect sinless world. Unless of course you believe that it was God's will that by one man sin would enter into the world and millions would be condemned to hell. I didn't realize you were a calvinist.

I'm not a Calvinist, I'm a realist. If God allows it, it's His will. Read the book of Job.

[Titus]

I'm not a Calvinist, I'm a realist. If God allows it, it's His will. Read the book of Job.

Read it. Read 2 Peter 3. The lord is not willing ​that any should perish.

[RoyS]

Okie dokie. God is not capable of stopping things that are against His will. Got it.

[Titus]

Okie dokie. God is not capable of stopping things that are against His will. Got it.

Where did I say that Roy? Got can stop anything he chooses. God permits things to happen that are not in His will. Is it God's will that 55,000,000 babies have been killed since roe v. wade? Was roe v. wade God's will? Pretty clear to me that it is not. God has chosen not to stop that. He will, in due time, but that fact that it happens doesn't mean He can't stop it, nor does it mean it is His will for it to happen. On the surface, that sounds like I'm making a pretty good argument against myself. But I am pretty sure that sin is not in God's will, and just because He allows it or permits it doesn't change that.

[RoyS]

Where did I say that Roy? Got can stop anything he chooses. God permits things to happen that are not in His will. Is it God's will that 55,000,000 babies have been killed since roe v. wade? Was roe v. wade God's will? Pretty clear to me that it is not. God has chosen not to stop that. He will, in due time, but that fact that it happens doesn't mean He can't stop it, nor does it mean it is His will for it to happen. On the surface, that sounds like I'm making a pretty good argument against myself. But I am pretty sure that sin is not in God's will, and just because He allows it or permits it doesn't change that.

Okay, maybe we're talking past each other. My stance is, if God allows it, it's His will to do so. 'Why do bad things happen to good people?' 'Why do good things happen to bad people?' God allows all things to happen. It's His will to have things happen as they do. We won't know the why or what on this side of Heaven.

[Titus]

I undersatnd what you're saying. If God allows something to happen, then it must be His will for it to happen, because if it wasn't He would stop it from happening. After all God cannot be forced to do anything. He is god. Ergo if it happens it must be His will.
So I think our disconnect is in how we define will and the fact that there is more than one way to define it. Obviously it is God's will to allow sin and evil to happen in the world right now, yet it is not His perfect will.

Rmans 12:1 I beseech you therefore, brethren, by the mercies of God, that ye present your bodies a living sacrifice, holy, acceptable unto God, which is your reasonable service.
² And be not conformed to this world: but be ye transformed by the renewing of your mind, that ye may prove what is that good, and acceptable, and perfect, will of God.

This is God's perfect will for us; to do what is good and acceptable in His sight. Yet sin happens. God allows it to happen, but it is not His will for it to happen. The world is a messed up place because of sin, and God by rights should destroy it, yet He chooses to be merciful, so He chooses to allow things to happen that are not His will for us, or for this world that was perfect when He created it, until we messed it up.

Am I making sense?

[other one]

Rev 11:14-18

14 The second woe is past; behold, the third woe is coming quickly.

15 And the seventh angel sounded; and there arose loud voices in heaven, saying,

"The kingdom of the world has become the kingdom of our Lord, and of His Christ; and He will reign forever and ever." 16 And the twenty-four elders, who sit on their thrones before God, fell on their faces and worshiped God, 17 saying,

"We give Thee thanks, O Lord God, the Almighty, who art and who wast, because Thou hast taken Thy great power and hast begun to reign. 18 "And the nations were enraged, and Thy wrath came, and the time came for the dead to be judged, and the time to give their reward to Thy bond-servants the prophets and to the saints and to those who fear Thy name, the small and the great, and to destroy those who destroy the earth."
NASB


i would ask that you read this carefully paying close attention to the parts in blue. The kingdom of this world will become the kingdom of the Lord at the seventh trumpet. And the second note understand that it is saying that the kingdom of this world has become the kingdom of our Lord and His Christ and "has begun to reign."

I do not see how any of us can say that Jesus is exercising his authority on this planet when looking at this scripture in context.
in general the world is just running on free will and as long as that is in force, Satan is pretty much in control here.

[Titus]

I think we're on the same page O.O. God is sovereign, but for a season He has chosen to allow things to happen that are outside His will. But Iwould stop short of saying satan is in control. God allows him to think he is in control. He cannot however touch God's children without God's consent, and even then he is limited in what God will allow.

[other one]

I think we're on the same page O.O. God is sovereign, but for a season He has chosen to allow things to happen that are outside His will. But Iwould stop short of saying satan is in control. God allows him to think he is in control. He cannot however touch God's children without God's consent, and even then he is limited in what God will allow.

Spiritually I would agree.... physically...... I have a problem with that.

If that were the case then the kingdom of this world would already be his and his will would be happening here.... I don't think much of what's happening in this world is really his will. You can start with 54million abortions just in the US since Roe V Wade and it goes downhill from there. I'm sorry, but I just can't put that into the "Gods Will" pile. The God that Jesus introduced us to just doesn't sound like what I see around me. I know there is a lot of good people in this country today, but we've turned into real Wusses when you get right down to it.

i understand what you're getting at and theologically is sounds right....... but it doesn't match up with the reality I see every day. Doesn't hurt my faith, it simply makes it all understandable. It's a bit more spooky until one realizes that we really don't belong here anyway.

I do agree that he pretty much has a hands off approach today, and we've already been warned that he through the beast will make war with the saints and overcome us..... so the shiny good day in the end, has some dark days between then and now. And people need to prepare themselves for that spiritually

[Hansc]

Titus

If God allows something to happen, then it must be His will for it to happen, because if it wasn't He would stop it from happening

I know that here you are just restating a common view, but I thought I'd add my two cents on this commonly held view.

It doesn't seem to be this way for people stepping into eternity lost. Most people die and are separated from God----forever. He is not stopping that, and we know that that is not His will.

I've known lots of Christians who got sick, and God wanted to heal them, but they died. They just got to heaven before it was His will for them to get there.

I think it works like this:

God has given humanity the gift of choice and decision. That was His will. However, people will often choose to do things that are not His will.

Just because God gave you a choice, does not make what you do with that choice His will.
Most of what happens in a person's life is not the will of God.

In order for the will of God to happen in our life, we need to through prayer and action, work with God to make it happen.
It does not happen automatically.
If it did, then Jesus admonition to pray "thy will be done" would be a meaningless ritual. Why bother to pray "thy will be done" if there really is no other option?

He cannot however touch God's children without God's consent, and even then he is limited in what God will allow.

That's a good question.

The devil, to me, seems not really like the type to ask permission. He just trys to get away with what he can. I have seen him afflect a Christian, against the will of God, and God would not do anything to stop him. I think the point is that God expects the individual to resist the devil and not let him impose his will upon him. God is not going to step in and resist the devil for you, He has given us the means to do the resisting.

Sam

If that were the case then the kingdom of this world would already be his and his will would be happening here.... I don't think much of what's happening in this world is really his will

I think if God were really running the show as many think, He sure has the place in a mess. I understand that He will return and take up the mantle of government, but that has not yet happened. Right now, we are here and He has given us authority to resist the enemy, who at this point in time is still the "god of this world."

Well, that's a little of how I see it.